The P-files: Sign-Up & OOC

I'm taking the save ends and I give Ramsus the right to do save ends rolls for me to help save time. Only when it comes to save throws that he gifts Gleeda though... Thouht the same is allowed by any other save throw gifter out there in the party. (though I think only Gleeda is the other save throw gifter member)

Ok, got another 10 crit, so Cardbo if you could answer the question again.....

Going for the Heal again with both CM and the YL.

Ok, I'll go edit that... *checks* wait why? You'll already be at full health. On both, you should probably take the saves.

Ok.  Fine.  We'll take the saves.

CM- Save vs ongoing damage.
Roll(1d20)+0:
17,+0
Total:17-4 = Saved

YL-Save vs ongoing damage.
Roll(1d20)+0:
1,+0
Total:1 - Bzzt!

.....

right ok. Make another save for the lantern.

Edit: I... whu... er... right. If you fail that save, make yet another one.

YL:Save vs Ongoing Damage
Roll(1d20)+0:
15,+0
Total:15-4 11
Saved!

Okay guys. I'm sorry, but please tell me I'm not the only one that feels like Ramsus' last turn was just completely ridiculous? Use a -2 PiP move, and suddenly everyone's swimming in saves, Temp HP, and healing... How is that supposed to have any semblance of balance at all?

I mean, sure. Ramsus rolled pretty good, but the fact that he can even do something like this at Level 2 seems waaaaaaaaaaaay too overpowered (and potentially broken) to me. If nothing else, you shouldn't be able to crit off of Pacifism again after critting off of Pacifism the first time.

Now, I'm not trying to steal Ramsus' thunder. I know it must feel nice to roll all those crits and I also assume that Ramsus made his combat build specifically to do something like this. The way things are right now though, there is absolutely no way for me to give you guys a challenging fight unless I make the monsters able to nuke you all in one turn because Ramsus can just super heal. Am I the only one bothered by this?

As I said in skype, the only proper solution is to switch to a less messed up combat system. Nerfing individual things will ruin whatever the weird balance point of this system is supposed to be and just leave us with something that isn't at all enjoyable for us. At that point you might as well just tell us how the fight works out without us doing anything. That would actually be more fun than playing a nerfed version of a system that's designed specifically to only function based on ridiculous combos. And by more fun I just mean because it would be over faster. Because seriously, telling us to play a nerfed version of this system is basically telling us to be bored while we're stuck in combat for weeks irl.

Edit: I'm also gonna point out that you just threw 26 damage (out of 30 being full hp) at a PC from an opponent that gets to act twice a round and has backup. If everything that was strong on our side was nerfed, we couldn't even fight that.

@Xand
I will point out that I have been finding this combat exciting, so you are making challenging fights. In fact I was wondering if shouldn't change Coffee to being a backup healer in the future, among other options I've been tossing around. Secondly, Ramsus' character is geared towards healing, and he happened to get lucky rolls, so its not like he can full-heal and Esuna the team every round. Lastly, we've got 10 levels worth of gear, even if we're only 2nd level.

Personally I think Ramsus got insane amount of luck here. But I equally don't see it as game braking. Just unlucky for this monster which can hit us really hard. So if anyone got right to complain it's us. Then again, all fights in this system do end up feeling like a cakewalk or "WE'RE ALL GOIN' DIE" and even then odds seem that the PCs will win in the end.

So who we're waiting on yet?

^We've been waiting on DB, though I've also been busy grading papers.

Also, I'm sorry guys. I know you think that what Ramsus did wasn't overpowered, but as the GM I have to disagree. I already mentioned it to everybody on Skype, but if Whisper is allowed to continue pulling that kind of BS all the time (and she can because nothing she did in that last turn was based on her items), then I really don't see how I can make challenging combats - or even combats worth playing out. I'm going to houserule a way to reign that combo in after this combat.

Also, I've heard some arguments about how Ramsus' healing was needed because the boss was too tough. Well, let me explain something. The way I GM, I always make a base monster, then think of some backup plans for extra, more powerful attacks and abilities to fall back on in case the combat is too easy. The reason that the Balrog is sooooo big and bad now has to do with the fact that, with Whisper's current setup, she's able to shrug off everything I throw at you without having any of it stick ever. I've had to fall back on plan B, C, D - all the way up to plan Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - and still, you guys have shrugged off everything. In that respect, Whisper's more powerful than a boss-level monster meant to take on an entire party. I find this a serious problem because it means, first off, that there is no real party balance (Whisper is the party and she outshines everyone all the time), plus secondly, to make a challenging fight with Whisper's current build, I'd have to scale the fights to her level (even more than I did this time) - thus making the rest of the party have to suffer for it (because I'll have to deal massive amounts of damage/debuffs just to keep up with Whisper's healing factor).

I don't like the idea of any of that, so in the name of game balance, I will be nerfing Whisper's uber-healing. She shouldn't have any chance of doing something like what she just did until she reaches a much later level in the game. She shouldn't be able to do that BS at level 2, no matter how good she rolls.

The only nerf that might be fair is that having Pacifist be unable to trigger off of the Crit or that when Pacifist triggers on a crit effect it CAN'T trigger another crit... Cause that was how the insane crits kept coming. I mean without that that only means she'd have just gotten the first round of 7 heal and the first crit effect. But still... I think of this being more a factor of insane luck the likes of which say to me that Ramsus is totally doing some type of dark rustrials in the name of the Random Number God...

And a way to make fights feel challenging isn't just in making the attack hit hard enough to KO everyone in one hit. Just try to work it in other ways like there is some type of time crouch factor in the fight. Or we gotta Figure out the right place to hit a character with multiple targets or something... Don't like hearing that you feel the only way you can make a good fight is to make sure the enemy hits hard and if the fight seems to be "easy" MAKE THEM HIT HARDER!

This "Wisper is the Party" BS I don't understand, because WHISPER CAN'T FIGHT AT ALL, she is nothing but heals, yeah she keeps the party alive. But that's all she's good for and everyone else is playing different roles that don't have any real overlap with Whipser's pure support role. And don't understand why you seem to just go "nope I'm the GM and I hate X, so I going to do what I want in spite of what you PCs feel" feeling you are expressing on this issue. It's like you are baiting Ramsus to blow up at you so you can blame him for the game dieing... Which at this point, I DON'T CARE! I just want the game to return to the normal world, and the real plotlines we had before this game went batshit insane with the whole Dream-Realm subplot that has OVERSTAYED it's welcome.

Another thing... WHY ARE WE STILL IN THE DREAMSCAPE? I know that I want this dreamscape BS pointlessness to be over with asap. Was hoping this fight would feel "fun" if nothing else, but nope, it just goes at a snals place like the rest of this game. I think we've played in this Dreamscape longer THEN ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS GAME.

The problem I have with this is that we've got a potential arms race here. Character A has a strong ability, so the PH needs to make a enemy that doesn't fall like a sack of wet noodles to Character A's ability. Since the enemy has designed to mitigate Character A does a rebuild of his character to counter this. Repeat ad nauseum.

In response to everything that's been said here, I don't really know what to say.

First off, I have been occupied with schoolwork and doing other things in general. Final Exams are coming up and I need to have all my students' work graded and ready.

I also just honestly haven't really been feeling much like having a long debate over things - with Ramsus especially - so that's a big reason why it may seem I'm coming down hard on you guys here. I'm not trying to get anyone angry, I'm just trying to get things done while avoiding another long, long discussion over Skype. I like to hear your opinions guys, but I am the GM and I should be able to run my game in a way that works with my playstyle as well as your own.

As for why we're still in dreamland Xel, you do realize that we've had at least two big fights (OOC) that stalled things out, right? I also went overboard in the beginning by trying to make a dungeon instead of a big fight, DB's been really busy with work and moving into his new place, and everyone in general has slowed down their posting time. If we'd been posting as fast as we were at this time last year, we'd probably have been well past the dreamlands by now - but things came up. Also, this isn't actually a side plot. It was just one way to go about investigating the stuff that's been happening in New Orreigns. What you're doing now is pretty important.

-And on another note, Subz recently posted in the skype chat with an idea to cut the PT combat system out of the game entirely and move to skill check combat.

I really don't know exactly what he means by that, but I can assume it's simplifying everything down to a series of skill checks to defeat enemies, instead of having a PiP system and whatnot. If that's the case, then it's something that I've already considered and it potentially could work. It would at least stop everyone from being locked into the same cycle of combat moves every turn (as I've heard DB complain about). It would allow you guys to interact with the environment more easily & creatively during combat too so that's another plus.

That typed though, I really don't think the PT combat system is all that bad - I just feel that it has certain combos that are unbalanced - and I'm really not sure that scrapping the system entirely is really the way to go. I'm worried that skill check combats might get boring/repetitive over time, they might be harder to pull off in a PbP setting, and they might even be limiting in a sense - I say "limiting" because how would we deal with special cases like Gleeda and her lightning armor or Chitin and her dagger mutations? Would we just throw them out? Would they be some kind of special attacks we'd have to work into a new combat system?

Thoughts?

Yes I know, there are reasons for us beign stalled in movement of the plotlines back to sanity. But that's just it, given the how super-duper-power-up times we had before this fight even began, and the intersting NPC call system thing that you started with this fight. Seems like the party's victory is a forgone conclusion, therefore I don't get why this fight you wanted it to be challenging for us to begin with (that was basically waht you say you build all fights to be a challenge. which I'm not totally sure is the way to aim for one's monster building, I'd argue you should build for the fight to be taliored to the party to be all useful in the fight in one way or another. and if possible try to make it fun.) I was more hoping you would aim for a fight that would be "fun" you know? Cause if you wanted us to feel a Challenge, why give us the power-up? And if that's because "oh, only with that power-up could you hope to win this fight" logic, then that just is a major sign of the monster being build clearly broken... Which I must request seeing the Balrog's stats post-fight. So we can maybe all go over things and help in finding out what was good and was bad to help avoid from the future fights.

I don't see how skill check "combat" could be any more dull than repeat the same 8 moves in specific orders or fail and die combat. As for Gleeda's lightning bow or Chitin's knifes... those would just be flavor/explanation as to how they're doing something combative. The key would be to not look at it as "combat" and just like any other form of skill check or out of combat action. If we don't like how it works we could always do something else, but clearly what we're doing right now isn't working since the players and the GM want entirely different things.

Xel Unknown wrote:Seems like the party's victory is a forgone conclusion, therefore I don't get why this fight you wanted it to be challenging for us to begin with (that was basically waht you say you build all fights to be a challenge. which I'm not totally sure is the way to aim for one's monster building, I'd argue you should build for the fight to be taliored to the party to be all useful in the fight in one way or another. and if possible try to make it fun.) I was more hoping you would aim for a fight that would be "fun" you know? Cause if you wanted us to feel a Challenge, why give us the power-up? And if that's because "oh, only with that power-up could you hope to win this fight" logic, then that just is a major sign of the monster being build clearly broken...

^First off, I don't think I said that I build all fights to be a challenge. I like to have challenging fights, but I don't aim for every fight to be a nail-biter.

Secondly, I haven't tailored fights to make the whole party useful - that much is true, but I do try to make fights that would be "fun," you know? To me, challenging fights are fun. Those are the fights that are the most memorable to me - fights where I feel that I'm hanging on the edge by the skin of my teeth, but where I still feel that I have a shot at winning. Those are the fights that I talk about long after a campaign ends.

That's why I like to have challenging fights.

Don't get me wrong, it is fun to just outright destroy some minions every now and then - but when I'm a PC, I don't want to blow away everything I fight against, because then I'd just get bored.

I did want you to have a challenge in the Balrog fight (mainly because in the first 2 waves of the fight you guys seemed to win pretty handily, and I wanted you to at least be challenged at the end) - but I also wanted you to be rewarded for coming up with creative solutions to the nightmare situation, and that's why I gave you all the gear. The Call System was also something I came up with in order to allow you to still have allies fight alongside you - while allowing you guys to call the shots and not feel outclassed by NPCs (this was a direct result of the issues you had with Buck a while back). I was trying to scale the boss up to give you some challenge even though you had all your swag - but what bothered me most (and still bothers me now) was that even though this boss was OP, Whisper was able to heal more than even the Balrog and his summoned nightmares could dish out to you. I felt that was a problem, because it's made this fight another complete cakewalk for you guys. I at least wanted to see the Balrog deal some damage that stuck. This also does not bode well for future battles - as Whisper has the her current healing factor without any items at all (something I've brought up multiple times by now).

The problem is, while yes I'll agree that Challenging fights can be quite fun and very memorable. But this fight, didn't feel challenging... If anything it felt more unfair fight were you just wanted to kick us out of hate or something. (not what I am sure you wanted, but it's how it felt from the PC side of things on this fight. I mean for one thing, it has a trait that hurts us if we hit it, and another that makes save ends near pointless to use on it. That's really lame to do to us given the party's skillsets.) Which I more blame on the system itself than anything else, getting the right balance is EXTREMELY hard to pull off with this system. After all it was mostly built just to be apart of a one-shot campaign that just exploded into the madness we all know and love today.

And yes, Whisper did heal a hell lot of out of her last turn. That is true, but again, that was more from crits and trait combo. Don't forget that the crits in this system are the most unbalanced thing ever. They're what the dev's hope to fix in the upcombing combat revamp thingie. (who knows when that'll come out)

Hey guys,

I've been meaning to level with you for a little while now, but I'm really just not feeling it for this game anymore.

For one thing, I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that both DB and myself have been pretty busy. At times, it's taken a lot of time to get back to post things - and in DB's case, his latest post took over a month to make (DB posted the day before last. Ramsus was last to post before him, and he posted on November 17th). I'm not sure if it was all because DB was busy, or if he's just lost interest in the game too - but whatever the case, the time it takes for us to make posts is one issue.

Another issue is the time it takes me to post. I just feel that in the past, I've spent way too much time on this campaign, and I really need to devote more time to more important things - like finding a full-time job, writing professionally, or just finding more work in general right now.

This game has also made it more difficult for me to do other stuff that I enjoy recreationally (I guess I spelled that right?) - like playing video games, catching up on shows, hanging out with my family and other friends, etc.

-In other words, this game is a major time-sink and I just don't feel that I (nor some of you) have the time, energy, or interest to devote to it anymore.

On another note, it's also obvious to me as well that we all have very different expectations of how combat in this game should go - at least with the old combat system - and I've been having trouble building anything that can appeal to the majority of the party. We've gotten into a lot of arguments too, and I think we could all do without more of those.

So I think I'm just going to officially shut down the P-Files right here. It was a pretty good run (roughly year-and-a-half if I'm not mistaken) but I just don't think we really can continue at this rate. I did love all your characters (and a lot of mine too); I also had a lot of big plans for where this campaign could go as well - but again, I think it's best if I just shut things down here.

Whatever the case, this campaign was a good experience overall. I was able to learn a lot about GMing. I also got a few cool stories that I can take away from all this too. We may have had our differences guys - and there may be some of you that I'd prefer not to play with again in the future - but no hard feelings in any case.

Take it easy guys, and I'll catch you later. I still plan to stay in DB's "Rise of the Windigo King" campaign, so you might see me on there - but otherwise, I need a break from all these forum PBPs, and I just don't have the energy to GM this game anymore - at least for the time being. If you guys are interested in picking this game up again in a couple months we can talk, but right now I just need a break.

If the campaign is fully over... And you did have plans... I'd suggest making a "what could've been" post out of respect for our characters. Maybe help wrap things up of what happened post-fight and whatnot for the group as well? I mean I'm fine mostly with the thing getting an early ending like this. But I don't wanta end everyone mid-fight with one of the most annoying bossfights I've ever had in pony tales. (even the Mr. Bones fight was more fun than this one) And still would love to see said Boss' stats...

Well thats supposing that P-Files is truly over and there's absolutely 0% chance it'll ever be continued.

Personally at this point... I don't care for it returning. It was a fun game, I loved it's characters, and wish he had more time with them. But if this campaign were to start back in the same spot where it is right now... I QUIT RIGHT NOW. Sorry but really this whole fight in itself is the issue at this point factoids relating to it have been what keep ending up to Xand getting stopped and ranting with the rest of us and vise versa. So ok, yes maybe telling of future plans be non-happen... But the stats of the Balrog and the ending of this fight should at least be given if this game wants any snowball's chance in hell of starting up again.

It might be possible for someone else to take over GMing. *shrug* (Not any of us of course.) If that were to happen it'd suck if Josh told us everything that might have happened. Though I agree I'd like to see the stuff about Balrog and what would have happened after we won. (Or if Josh hadn't planned on us being able to win or such.)